Legislature(2021 - 2022)GRUENBERG 120

02/03/2022 11:00 AM House FISHERIES

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11:03:37 AM Start
11:04:25 AM Presentation: Yukon River Chum Salmon - Commissioner Vincent-lang
12:01:02 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ Presentation: Yukon River Chum Salmon by TELECONFERENCED
Commissioner Vincent-Lang
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+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES                                                                            
                        February 3, 2022                                                                                        
                           11:03 a.m.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Geran Tarr, Chair                                                                                                
Representative Louise Stutes, Vice Chair                                                                                        
Representative Jonathan Kreiss-Tomkins                                                                                          
Representative Andi Story                                                                                                       
Representative Dan Ortiz                                                                                                        
Representative Sarah Vance                                                                                                      
Representative Kevin McCabe                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
Representative Mike Cronk                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
PRESENTATION: YUKON RIVER CHUM SALMON - COMMISSIONER VINCENT-                                                                   
LANG                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
DOUG VINCENT-LANG, Commissioner                                                                                                 
Alaska Department of Fish & Game                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented the Yukon River Chum Salmon                                                                    
update.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
11:03:37 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GERAN TARR called the  House Special Committee on Fisheries                                                             
meeting to  order at  11:03 a.m.   Representatives  Tarr, Stutes,                                                               
Vance,  Story, Ortiz,  and McCabe  were  present at  the call  to                                                               
order.  Representative Kreiss-Tomkins  arrived as the meeting was                                                               
in progress.  Also present was Representative Cronk.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
^PRESENTATION: Yukon  River Chum  Salmon -  Commissioner Vincent-                                                               
Lang                                                                                                                            
  PRESENTATION: Yukon River Chum Salmon - Commissioner Vincent-                                                             
                              Lang                                                                                          
                                                                                                                              
11:04:25 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TARR announced  that the only order of business  would be a                                                               
presentation on the Yukon River  Chum Salmon by Alaska Department                                                               
of Fish & Game (ADF&G) Commissioner Doug Vincent-Lang.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
11:05:02 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DOUG  VINCENT-LANG, Commissioner,  Alaska  Department  of Fish  &                                                               
Game, stated  that the House  Special Committee on  Fisheries had                                                               
requested that ADF&G provide a report  on the findings on the low                                                               
returns of  chum salmon to the  Yukon River drainage.   He stated                                                               
that many  reasons had been identified  as a culprit for  the low                                                               
returns,  including   bycatch.     He  stated   that  sustainable                                                               
management decisions  were made by taking  into consideration all                                                               
of the impacts on low  returns and also taking into consideration                                                               
impacts of  management to the  fishing industry  and communities.                                                               
He stated  that the  department had  closed in-river  and coastal                                                               
fisheries including subsistence,  commercial, sport, and personal                                                               
use due  to the  poor returns  of chum  salmon to  the area.   He                                                               
reminded  the committee  that the  Alaska State  Constitution and                                                               
statutes mandate that salmon fisheries  be managed to the maximum                                                               
sustained yield principle  and, when returns are  low enough that                                                               
future returns would  be put at risk, the department  is bound to                                                               
close  fishing, including  subsistence fishing.   He  stated that                                                               
salmon  returns are  cyclical,  and that  while  the most  recent                                                               
return was low, it was not  the only instance of low returns, and                                                               
fisheries management had been employed  to aid in the restoration                                                               
of salmon  runs in the  past.  He noted  that chum salmon  in the                                                               
Yukon-Kuskokwim  area   had  collapsed  in  the   1990s  and  had                                                               
rebounded  in the  early  2000s.   He stated  that  the State  of                                                               
Alaska  is  extremely concerned  with  the  low returns  of  chum                                                               
salmon  experienced the  prior  summer  impacting food  security,                                                               
culture,  and  economics.    He  stated  that  more  than  50,000                                                               
residents throughout over 100  different communities are impacted                                                               
by the chum salmon return.   He added that ADF&G understands that                                                               
commercial  fishing  activities  are  important  to  provide  the                                                               
resources  necessary  to support  a  subsistence  lifestyle.   He                                                               
shared  that  he  had visited  affected  communities  and  sought                                                               
feedback on  the impacts [of  closing the  fisheries] experienced                                                               
by   local   residents.     He   stated   that   the   [Dunleavy]                                                               
administration  understood  that  there is  no  substitution  for                                                               
subsistence  living, and  it had  distributed salmon  to affected                                                               
communities,  and  is   considering  additional  distribution  of                                                               
salmon  to  other affected  communities  in  hopes to,  at  least                                                               
partially, offset the  effects of the lost food.   He added that,                                                               
where  sustainably  possible,   the  department  was  considering                                                               
extending moose  and caribou  hunting in  the affected  areas and                                                               
department  staff continue  to  explore  other opportunities  [to                                                               
maintain food security in the area.]                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
11:08:48 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG  stated  that  he  would  address  the                                                               
reasons  for the  poor chum  returns and  measures that  could be                                                               
adopted  in a  forensic-type of  analysis to  the committee.   He                                                               
provided  background  on the  fishery  by  explaining that  there                                                               
exist two  distinct runs of chum  salmon to the Yukon  River; the                                                               
summer chum  run, which  spawns entirely  within Alaska,  and the                                                               
fall  return, which  spawns both  in Alaska  and in  Canada.   He                                                               
explained  that the  fall  chum  run is  subject  to the  Pacific                                                               
Salmon Treaty,  which have required border  passage objectives to                                                               
which the summer  run is not subject.  He  stated that one-and-a-                                                               
half  to  two  million  fish  are  missing  based  on  pre-season                                                               
projections  on  the  fish  run.     He  stated  that  many  have                                                               
postulated  that [a  major  reason]  is due  to  bycatch, and  he                                                               
addressed the  Bering Sea  trawl fishery.   He stated  that trawl                                                               
fisheries target pollock  and cod, and some chum  are captured as                                                               
bycatch in  that fishery.   He  explained that  most of  the chum                                                               
caught  as bycatch  in that  fishery are  juvenile and  would not                                                               
have been  expected to return  on the current year's  Yukon River                                                               
run and  that the  fish caught  two years  prior would  have been                                                               
expected in  the past  year's run.    He  stated that,  two years                                                               
ago, an  estimated 350,000  juvenile chum  salmon and,  while the                                                               
number of  bycatch fish is  large and  efforts should be  made to                                                               
reduce  that  number,   the  origins  of  the   fish  consist  of                                                               
approximately  half  of  Asian  origin,  and,  of  the  remaining                                                               
175,000 fish, only slightly less  than half are of western Alaska                                                               
origin,   based  on   genetic   testing.     He  estimated   that                                                               
approximately  only 35,000  fish would  have returned  to western                                                               
Alaska if none  had been caught as bycatch.   He concluded to the                                                               
committee  that bycatch  alone  would  not account  for  1.5    2                                                               
million missing fish.   He stated that it was  possible that some                                                               
of  the  fish  had  been  caught  outside  of  U.  S.  fisheries,                                                               
including by  Russian fishers,  but the  origins of  those caught                                                               
fish remain  unknown.   He stated  that Russian  trawlers [unlike                                                               
Alaska trawlers]  do not have  neutral, independent  observers on                                                               
board their vessels.   He stated that Alaska, as  a member of the                                                               
North Pacific  Fishery Management  Council, had written  a letter                                                               
to the United States Secretary  of State to request collaboration                                                               
on  better  catch  accounting and  genetic  analysis  of  Russian                                                               
trawler  bycatch  of salmon.    He  stated  that if  the  bycatch                                                               
numbers were  comparable to the  Alaska trawler  bycatch fishery,                                                               
bycatch alone would not be the  main factor in the poor return of                                                               
chum  salmon.   He stated  that the  department will  continue to                                                               
seek  data from  the Russian  fisheries.   He added  that western                                                               
Alaska chum salmon could also  be caught in mixed stock fisheries                                                               
within state  waters, such as  those along the  Alaska Peninsula,                                                               
in which an  estimated 2.2 million chums were  harvested in those                                                               
fisheries  and   through  genetic   testing  it  is   known  that                                                               
approximately 600,000 of those are  of western Alaska origin, and                                                               
half  of  which are  known  to  be of  Bristol  Bay  origin.   He                                                               
cautioned that limitations  on genetic testing did  not allow for                                                               
a  complete  distinction between  Yukon  River  and Norton  Sound                                                               
salmon, although the department was  making progress in that area                                                               
of study.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:12:42 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG stated  that  most of  the harvest  of                                                               
western Alaska chum  salmon takes place during  the June fishery,                                                               
and chums caught  later in the year are of  local stocks, and the                                                               
June fishery alone would not  explain what happened [to cause the                                                               
poor return.]  He added that  fall chums, which are not harvested                                                               
in that fishery also collapsed,  which indicates that the fishery                                                               
alone is not  the cause of the  poor returns.  He  added that the                                                               
estimates were  based on genetic  data from years in  which there                                                               
existed high  abundance of summer  chum salmon in  western Alaska                                                               
which, despite  being the best  available data,  may overestimate                                                               
the projected harvest  of western Alaska stocks.   He stated that                                                               
ADF&G staff are preparing a  study proposal to update the genetic                                                               
composition of Alaska Peninsula fisheries,  to begin in June, and                                                               
will be funded  by food security funds and a  request for FY 2022                                                               
supplemental  funds had  been made  to  continue that  work.   He                                                               
characterized the study  as critical, as the  data used currently                                                               
is  over a  decade old,  and chum  salmon composition  across the                                                               
drainages  has changed.   He  stated  that he  had also  directed                                                               
staff  to   identify  opportunities  for  the   exercise  of  his                                                               
emergency order  authority to reduce intercept  of western Alaska                                                               
chum salmon  during the  June season,  should low  returns occur.                                                               
He added  that the Alaska  Board of  Fish will discuss  the [chum                                                               
fishery] during its  next annual meeting cycle.   He stated that,                                                               
several years  prior, a marine survival  study involving multiple                                                               
agencies  to determine  impacts to  salmon survival  in the  deep                                                               
blue ocean.   He stated  that the  study was providing  clues and                                                               
insights to  forecast and manage the  fisheries more effectively.                                                               
He stated that  it had been discovered that the  first few months                                                               
of life in  the marine environment may be  critical to projecting                                                               
the long-term survival of chum  salmon.  He expressed an interest                                                               
in the  department expanding  the study into  the Bering  Sea and                                                               
Gulf of Alaska, subject to  supplemental capital project funding.                                                               
He added  that the  department is  participating in  various deep                                                               
blue ocean  surveys to better  understand marine survival  in the                                                               
open  ocean.   He  stated  that there  exist  many challenges  to                                                               
[studying  marine  life]  in the  open  ocean  because  telemetry                                                               
studies do not work in saltwater,  and the ocean is a much larger                                                               
environment in which to operate than  in a river environment.  He                                                               
added that funds  from the Pacific Salmon  Commission through the                                                               
North  Pacific Research  Board had  been  designated towards  the                                                               
department staff's  effort of  researching in  the north  Gulf of                                                               
Alaska  and the  Bering  Sea, including  funding  staff on  board                                                               
National Oceanic  and Atmospheric Administration  (NOAA) research                                                               
vessels and two staff members who  are scheduled to be on board a                                                               
Russian  research  vessel.   He  added  that the  department  was                                                               
working  with  the  U.  S.  congressional  delegation  to  secure                                                               
additional  resources  at  the  federal  level  to  continue  the                                                               
research.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:16:33 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG  described a new research  program that                                                               
had been federally funded.  He  explained that there exists a run                                                               
and  harvest assessment  with sonar  tracking  and genetic  stock                                                               
analysis of  a lower tributary  of the Porcupine River  in Alaska                                                               
to study the  declines in the fall salmon run  of Canadian origin                                                               
which return to  the Yukon River.  He stated  the startup and in-                                                               
season study would aid in  meeting the obligations of the Pacific                                                               
Salmon Treaty to report U. S.  harvest data.  He added that there                                                               
was  underway  a  comprehensive  subsistence  survey  to  collect                                                               
summer and fall  chum subsistence harvest and use  and need data,                                                               
for all  Yukon River  salmon stocks.   He further  explained that                                                               
there   had  been   calls  for   rehabilitation  of   runs  using                                                               
enhancement  [funds.]    He  noted   that  most  of  the  use  of                                                               
enhancement  has  been on  chinook  salmon,  due to  declines  in                                                               
abundance of that species and  suggested that the decline in chum                                                               
runs  could be  integrated into  the work  already being  done on                                                               
chinook.   He stated that  ADF&G staff  would draft a  Yukon area                                                               
comprehensive  salmon  plan for  his  review  and approval  as  a                                                               
necessary first step, along with  discussion with the Yukon panel                                                               
of the Pacific  Salmon Treaty.  He suggested that  there exists a                                                               
need for planning and preparation  before it would be possible to                                                               
increase fish stocks.  He  expressed sympathy with those affected                                                               
by low salmon runs and  assured the committee that the department                                                               
was  taking steps  to identify  the  causes and  would use  sound                                                               
management to address the issues.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
11:19:29 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ORTIZ asked  whether there exists no  cap or limit                                                               
on bycatch of chum salmon within the pollock fleet.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG confirmed  that no  cap limits  are in                                                               
place  in bycatch  of  chum,  but limits  did  exist for  chinook                                                               
salmon and the chum were a part of that same fishery.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ORTIZ asked  what the origin was  of the estimated                                                               
bycatch previously described by the Commissioner.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG answered that  NOAA monitors the entire                                                               
trawl fishery and provides data and fish for genetic sampling.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ORTIZ asked,  without  any limits  on bycatch  of                                                               
chum salmon, how the number of bycatch could be reduced.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG  answered  that the  department  would                                                               
need  to  review  data  collected on  bycatch  within  the  trawl                                                               
fishery  to determine  where  more  chum are  being  caught.   He                                                               
stated that action  had recently been taken to  reduce the number                                                               
of halibut bycatch  in the Bering Sea, in which  nets were raised                                                               
off  of  the  sea  floor   and  could  potentially  have  led  to                                                               
additional  salmon bycatch.   He  cautioned that  the fishery  is                                                               
very  dynamic and  the fishery  is not  rationalized.   He stated                                                               
that  rationalization  has  been   the  most  effective  step  in                                                               
reducing bycatch  of all species due  to more time and  space for                                                               
fishers to operate more cleanly.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
11:23:29 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  VANCE  asked  whether   the  projections  of  the                                                               
upcoming chum runs had improved.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG answered  that  the near-shore  marine                                                               
survey  contained the  data  used for  projections  and that  was                                                               
currently  under review  by department  staff.   He  hypothesized                                                               
that the next  projection would likely remain low,  but that hope                                                               
existed that future runs would improve.   He added that the major                                                               
factor  affecting chum  salon returns  is their  life out  in the                                                               
ocean.  He added that salmon  out in the ocean have higher energy                                                               
demands and less nutritious food  sources leading to a decline in                                                               
survival and  them returning sooner,  at a smaller age,  from the                                                               
ocean.  He added that  predation and competition for food sources                                                               
exist.   He  noted that  the  ocean conditions  are changing  and                                                               
could benefit salmon food sources.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
11:26:05 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE asked what  the timeline of implementing the                                                               
data research findings into the fishery would be.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG  stated that food security  funds would                                                               
be required  to undertake the  research, and it would  not likely                                                               
be  completed in  the  upcoming  season.   He  stated that  other                                                               
research  efforts that  are  underway would  also  not likely  be                                                               
implemented to  the next season's management  decisions and those                                                               
research efforts were  also based on funding.   He estimated that                                                               
management  programs would  bear results  of the  research within                                                               
the next one to two years.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE asked,  within Area M, there  appeared to be                                                               
a  discrepancy between  reported and  observed bycatch  and asked                                                               
how increased accountability may be brought.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG asked whether  the area in question was                                                               
in the Bering Sea or in the Gulf of Alaska.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE stated her concern was within Area M.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG answered  that  Area M  is within  the                                                               
Gulf of  Alaska and  are state managed  salmon fisheries  and are                                                               
not bycatch.  He offered  the clarification that fish are bycatch                                                               
when they are  not targeted [by the fishery.]   He added that the                                                               
chum  salmon fishery  was important  to  take into  consideration                                                               
when investigating  the reasons  for low  returns.   He explained                                                               
that fish tickets and genetic  studies exist for those fisheries.                                                               
He  stated  that  trawl  fisheries  in the  Gulf  of  Alaska  are                                                               
federally  managed fisheries  and  have an  observer program  and                                                               
offered  to investigate  whether  there exists  a discrepancy  in                                                               
NOAA reported data and observer reported data.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
11:30:38 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCCABE  stated  that  the  observer  program  was                                                               
important and discrepancies in  reporting should be investigated.                                                               
He added  that the  year 2022  is the  International Year  of the                                                               
Salmon,  and  research  vessels  would  be  deployed  to  conduct                                                               
research on developing  a "likely suspects" framework.   He asked                                                               
whether ADF&G  has a "likely  suspects" framework  including some                                                               
of the  previously discussed  potential contributing  factors [to                                                               
declining chum salmon runs.]                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG answered that  ADF&G was supporting the                                                               
work  being done  on  the  International Year  of  the Salmon  by                                                               
directing funds  from the  North Pacific  Research Board  and the                                                               
Pacific  Salmon Commission  as  well as  several  ADF&G staff  on                                                               
board  the  research  vessels  as  well as  on  board  a  Russian                                                               
research vessel.   He  stated that  ADF&G does  not have  its own                                                               
"likely  suspects" framework,  but that  it was  participating in                                                               
the  development  of  the  framework with  other  agencies.    He                                                               
suggested that  one year  of studies would  not result  in enough                                                               
data  to  implement  management tools  and  cautioned  that  much                                                               
information  [affecting salmon  returns]  is in  the  ocean.   He                                                               
added that, over  the last decade, chinook  returns have declined                                                               
in  conjunction   with  the  enactment   of  the   Marine  Mammal                                                               
Protection Act, which has increased  the number of natural salmon                                                               
predators  in  the  ocean.    He  stated  that  research  efforts                                                               
underway are the first attempt  to understand what affects salmon                                                               
in the  big ocean, in  which salmon  spend the majority  of their                                                               
life  stages.   He  stated  that  salmon are  returning  smaller,                                                               
younger, and  with signs  of predation  and there  are predictors                                                               
that show that the ocean is not  as friendly as it used to be for                                                               
salmon.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:36:19 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCCABE asked  whether ADF&G  has suggestions  for                                                               
the trawl fleet to voluntarily  limit bycatch with best practices                                                               
while research  is underway.   He asked whether measures  such as                                                               
LED  lights to  lead desired  fish, or  a smaller  sample run  to                                                               
determine  whether the  potential for  bycatch exists  so that  a                                                               
trawler could relocate  its net to a set that  would involve less                                                               
bycatch.   He  stated that  the U.S.  Department of  Commerce had                                                               
declared  a  fishery disaster  going  back  to  2018.   He  asked                                                               
whether funds had  been designated to ADF&G  through the economic                                                               
disaster declaration.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG  stated that  the observer  program was                                                               
expensive but necessary, and it  was the intent of the department                                                               
to  draft   a  report  on   findings  of  the   independence  and                                                               
verifiability of  the program.   He expressed his  agreement with                                                               
Representative  McCabe's  suggestions  of  practices  that  would                                                               
mitigate  bycatch.   He  added  that  for implementation  of  the                                                               
practices and methods described,  fishers need additional time to                                                               
plan and implement those practices.   He stated that the race for                                                               
as many fish in as short  a period of time as possible prohibited                                                               
fishers  from implementing  LED  lights or  other  measures.   He                                                               
stated that  rationalized fisheries would enable  quota shares to                                                               
be  caught over  a  longer  period of  time,  which could  enable                                                               
experimentation of  practices to reduce  bycatch.  He  noted that                                                               
pollock and cod was rationalized,  and chinook was capped, and it                                                               
was under  consideration to cap  chum fisheries.  He  stated that                                                               
rationalization of the  Gulf of Alaska trawl  fishery would allow                                                               
for more time for fishers to experiment to reduce bycatch.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
11:41:48 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER   VINCENT-LANG   answered  Representative   McCabe's                                                               
inquiry on disaster  declarations by explaining the  process.  He                                                               
explained  that fishers  can request  a  declaration of  disaster                                                               
under  the  Magnusson  Stevens  Act  or  the  Interjurisdictional                                                               
Fisheries  Act,  which ADF&G  reviews  to  determine whether  the                                                               
request  meets  the  criteria  set   forth  in  the  Acts.    The                                                               
department coordinates communication with  the U. S. Secretary of                                                               
Commerce  through the  governor's office  for a  determination of                                                               
whether a disaster has occurred.   When a disaster is declared by                                                               
the U. S.  Secretary of Commerce, it does not  mean that there is                                                               
necessarily money  made available  and that  funds would  be made                                                               
available   through   congressional  appropriation,   which   the                                                               
Secretary  may  award to  anywhere  in  the  country in  which  a                                                               
disaster has been declared.   He further explained that the State                                                               
of Alaska  engages in a public  process to develop a  spend plan,                                                               
which is  then submitted to the  U. S. Secretary of  Commerce and                                                               
the U. S.  Office of Management & Budget for  review and approval                                                               
and, once the  spend plan is approved, the funds  are directed to                                                               
an organization located  in the State of  Oregon for distribution                                                               
[to areas  affected in Alaska.]   He expressed that while  he was                                                               
happy   that  the   federal  government   had  agreed   with  the                                                               
declaration of  disaster, he cautioned  that the process  for the                                                               
receipt of [disaster relief funds]  is a long, drawn-out process.                                                               
He  added   that  coordination  with  the   U.  S.  Congressional                                                               
Delegation  was  taking  place  to  streamline  the  process  for                                                               
receiving disaster funds and, to date, no award had been made.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
11:44:47 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TARR offered that future  committee hearings may be held so                                                               
that   the  committee   could  fully   understand  the   disaster                                                               
declaration processes underway.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
11:45:13 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS  asked  what the  estimated  total                                                               
bycatch was in Area M and in the Bering Sea trawl fisheries.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER    VINCENT-LANG    answered    that    [projections]                                                               
demonstrated  one-and-a-half to  two million  chums were  missing                                                               
from  the Yukon  run, and  bycatch  would account  for 30,000  to                                                               
40,000 of  those fish.   He  added that Area  M was  an intercept                                                               
fishery and  estimated to  consist of another  300,000 fish.   He                                                               
added  that the  projections  had been  based  on studies  during                                                               
which Yukon  chum were  at relatively high  abundance.   He added                                                               
that  intercept  fisheries  [data]  are more  reflective  of  the                                                               
abundance of the fish.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS  asked, since the Bering  Sea trawl                                                               
fishery  was  100  percent  observed,  whether  the  estimate  of                                                               
300,000 to 400,000 chum bycatch was estimated with certainty.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG  stated that all genetic  testing has a                                                               
margin  for error  and other  factors, and  he answered  that the                                                               
estimate  was  "in the  ballpark"  and  that the  department  was                                                               
confident  in the  estimate  of between  300,000    400,000  chum                                                               
caught as bycatch.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS asked  what  the  total number  of                                                               
chum bycatch  including those  which may not  have come  from the                                                               
Yukon River, Kuskokwim River, and Norton Sound watersheds.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG  answered  that, 2  years  prior,  the                                                               
total  number was  estimated to  be  200,000 to  300,000 and  may                                                               
fluctuate, especially during years of low chum returns.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS  acknowledged  the  complexity  of                                                               
ascertaining the reasons for low  returns.  He suggested that two                                                               
"levers"  of management  exist; the  first, to  impose limits  on                                                               
bycatch and the  second to impose catch limits  through the Board                                                               
of  Fish  process   in  the  Area  M  fishery.     He  asked  the                                                               
Commissioner's opinion  on the two apparent  available management                                                               
"levers."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG  answered  that  he  was  hesitant  to                                                               
endorse  a hard  limit on  chum bycatch  in the  absence of  data                                                               
analysis  and at  the risk  of increasing  the number  of chinook                                                               
caught as bycatch.   He stated that, regarding the  Board of Fish                                                               
management  of the  Alaska Peninsula  fisheries, new  information                                                               
would  become available  to inform  the  Board's decisions  going                                                               
forward.    He speculated  that,  should  large numbers  of  chum                                                               
salmon be caught in [the Area  M] fishery, the Board would likely                                                               
reconsider the allocation  management of that fishery.   He added                                                               
that,  when  subsistence  fishing  is  closed  in  an  area,  the                                                               
migratory route  of the  salmon should  be examined,  and efforts                                                               
should be made  to reduce the amount of chum  salmon harvested in                                                               
other areas.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
11:50:56 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   STORY   asked   what   requested   studies   are                                                               
anticipated to  be funded  through the State  of Alaska  and what                                                               
studies would  be funded through  the federal government  so that                                                               
the legislature  could best advocate  for the collection  of data                                                               
necessary to inform management decisions.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG answered that  the FY 2022 state-funded                                                               
studies  were the  Alaska  Marine Salmon  Program  and a  capital                                                               
funding request  for $1.5 million  in unrestricted  general funds                                                               
(UGF)  for studies  in  the  north Bering  Sea.    He added  that                                                               
another   study   funded  through   the   State   is  for   stock                                                               
identification of  salmon harvested in Southeast  Alaska as shown                                                               
in a  $2 million  capital UGF  funding request.   He  stated that                                                               
advocacy through  the U. S. Congressional  delegation for funding                                                               
for international  vessel field  work research  by NOAA  would be                                                               
most helpful.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
11:53:35 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STUTES asked  what the cap was for  the Bering Sea                                                               
or Gulf of Alaska chum pot fisheries.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG offered  to follow  up to  provide the                                                               
requested information to the committee.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:54:04 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TARR stated that, during  a previous legislative session, a                                                               
resolution was  passed in  support of  the International  Year of                                                               
the  Salmon and  collaborated with  legislators in  the State  of                                                               
Washington and the State of Oregon  in support of deep blue ocean                                                               
studies.   She  noted  that February  to April  of  2022 was  the                                                               
period  which  the research  vessels  would  be conducting  their                                                               
multi-country studies.   She encouraged  the committee  to embark                                                               
on  additional learning  opportunities of  what research  efforts                                                               
were taking place.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
11:55:41 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE restated his  interest in bycatch reduction                                                               
practices   and  acknowledged   that   differences  exist   among                                                               
fisheries and  that technologies  may be  more effective  in some                                                               
fisheries than in  others.  He suggested  that, should additional                                                               
time  be  necessary  for fishers  to  test  experimental  bycatch                                                               
reduction  technologies, the  department could  consider allowing                                                               
extra time  on the  fishing grounds  prior to  rationalization of                                                               
the fisheries.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
11:57:35 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TARR stated  that there would be a  resolution presented to                                                               
the current legislature regarding  the Alaska Ocean Cluster which                                                               
would involve the  University of Alaska and  private companies to                                                               
develop  new technologies  to reduce  bycatch.   She invited  the                                                               
commissioner  to participate  in ongoing  conversations regarding                                                               
the reduction of  bycatch and other efforts underway.   She asked                                                               
the commissioner whether  he could provide a  ten-year outlook on                                                               
research  projects  and  noted  that,  in her  first  term  as  a                                                               
lawmaker,  a  law  had  been passed  funding  a  salmon  research                                                               
project, but that work had discontinued due to lack of funding.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER   VINCENT-LANG   agreed    to   provide   additional                                                               
information  to the  committee and  allowed  that near-shore  and                                                               
freshwater  areas could  be adequately  researched  at the  state                                                               
level.   He  stated  that partnerships  are  required to  conduct                                                               
deep-water  ocean  studies.   He  offered  to provide  additional                                                               
information  at  the   committee's  pleasure  regarding  disaster                                                               
programs in the next few weeks.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
12:01:02 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Special  Committee on  Fisheries meeting  was adjourned  at 12:01                                                               
p.m.                                                                                                                            

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